On the next round, the Flank would have to be set up again: 1st Player gets into (or remains in) position and attacks (without Advan). When two allied creatures are within 5 feet of an enemy creature and one of the allied creatures makes a melee attack against that enemy, the other allied creature can use its reaction to grant advantage on the attack roll (before the roll is made). The penalty to notice things in or beyond your rear area is -5. There are no flanking rules as of yet. Big changes from 3.x (and possibly 4e? Dive in and start playing today! You're starting from a position that 5e charge must be the same as 4e charge. Advantage/disadvantage is the equivalent of +/- 5 on a roll. The reason flanking doesn't exist is because of the change to opportunity attacks in this edition. I'd stick with the advantage over +2 though. The combat advantage meant a lot to the class builds, so there was a lot of movement and shifting on the grid to get your miniature/token in the perfect spot to cause maximum damage. Honestly, flanking in 5e is just a bad rule in general. I'm glad that worked out! My DM uses flanking rules and it's the first time I've played with them. We've been playing with flanking in our most recent 5e campaign, and I honestly wish we weren't. Again, this must be deliberate. So at best I would be using a class ability to NOT get two d20 rolled on an attack against me. Cookies help us deliver our Services. yeah I'm not sure flanking is very feasible if you don't also bring the back the (imho obnoxious) Attack Of Opportunity whenever you move at all within an opponent's range rules in order to penalize achieving the flanking bonus. Fair facing house rules for 5e - Role-playing Games Stack ... 5e Flanking Dmg - hcrenew. Flanking only functioned in 4e because of A) strict opportunity attack rules, B) 4e's +2 bonus, which is a much smaller bonus than 5e's Advantage. Now, I don't plan on changing how I'm running our current campaign at all. It renders a lot of spells and class abilities redundant if everyone has advantage anyway, and I'm not a huge fan of that, but perhaps it would be better with less than 5 players! I'm in a game where the DM wanted to use the variant flanking rules in the DMG. A creature can’t flank an enemy that it can’t see. The penalty on Spot checks in or beyond your flank areas is -5; on Spot checks in your rear area, it’s -10. It makes getting advantage way to easy, it is lazy, it makes certain monster abilities like pack tactics pointless, in many ways it is just horrible. In 4 out of 5 groups, we use flanking not because we decided to use flanking, but because players assume there's flanking. Whether your opponents' disadvantage is negated or your opponents are given advantage from standard it's still the same bonus. Fifth edition only has an optional rule that conveys advantage, but that can be too strong at times (and not strong enough at others, if someone is surrounded by five foes) and involves another dice roll. In fact, the line itself doesn't even imply the second part: it's just that nothing else in the rules does give ranged attacks a flanking bonus to hit, so you can't get one. Core DnD Rules combat is garbage. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. This was an essential aspect of the gameplay of Rogues and melee classes during 3rd, 3.5, and 4th edition. 5e doesn't need flanking. My First House Rule for DnD Basic (5e) Grappling follows a progression. Mathematically Advantage is equal to about +3.3 bonus. dave2008 Legend. Flanking in other editions meant you gained a bonus to hit and combat advantage. I personally would not hand out advantage for something as easy to get as flanking in 5e, advantage/disadvantage is something I give out just a couple times an encounter not every round. ): Moving inside a creature's reach does not provoke AoOs The only exception to the rule that you can't flank with a ranged weapon is the case where you threaten squares with a ... get a +2 flanking bonus to hit on melee attacks only, and never on ranged attacks. 5e doesn't need flanking. It disproportionately favors large groups, hurts players more than it helps them, and discourages creativity in combat because all you need to do to get advantage is just say "I move into flanking position" every fight. I feel like at the point where someone threatens to leave the group if they don't get their way, they should just leave then and there anyway. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Also, flanking seems to be intuitive to players. Thanks all. Archer goes first and shoots the Bugbear. Any movement within someone's melee range triggers an attack of opportunity. Hey All: I've recently started playing a 5th edition game as the only melee player. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Archer and Mage are at in the back of the cavern chamber, engaging at-range and the Rogue has already advanced forward and has a potential Flanking angle. The order of turns is determined at the beginning of a combat encounter, when everyone rolls initiative. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking. In addition, Advantage and +2 are hardly equivalent, even in 5e with it's bounded accuracy. Our bear-form druid has the benefit of additional health from shifting into bear form which is essentially a temp HP pool. Special. I can always get more players. Normal. If/when they appear it will be in the DMG. I said we would try it for a session. Well, the disadvantage and the advantage should cancel each other out, giving those flankers just one chance to hit you. Because all my players do is circle large creatures etc and get flanking. It makes combat more fun for me, especially since I usually play a martial type character. One rule that was deprioritized from the earlier renditions of D&D was flanking: a rule which gave a small attack boost to two characters on either side of an opponent. mage armor 13 +1 magic item ( maybe) and a 20 dex? Also, the 2nd ranged attack is just a standard attack. When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. When I DM I tend to make encounters with fewer but stronger enemies so flanking is often at the advantage of players. Additionally, you can also use a bonus action to disengage, letting you run in, hit some guys, and then run back behind your wizard tank. ... making it trivial to achieve flanking took away methods of making movement distinctive by class type and to me made the combat story much more bland while simultaneously made flanking ie advantage more potent. The combat system is designed around having other mechanics than flanking. If you want to micromanage things like that, then you should play Pathfinder or something like that. Rogues get this on their Sneak Attack, too. A typical combat encounter is a clash between two sides, a flurry of weapon swings, feints, parries, footwork, and spellcasting. It does not meet the Flanking criteria and does not get Advan (unless some other condition would normally grant it). Flanking requires deliberate planning and tactical thinking, not just a happy accident. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. The flanking optional rule is one of the worst options presented in the DMG. Let's say the PCs are engaging a Bugbear and his two pet wolves. But in that case then you may have heard your players bring up flanking. Results 1 to 18 of 18 Thread: Alternate Flanking rule. Stabby stab with Advan and Sneak Attack. So I’m going to be DMing this Sunday, and one thing I want to introduce into combat is a quick and easy flanking rule that conveys some of the danger of being outnumbered in combat. There is almost never a reason to not move around behind a creature. A subreddit dedicated to the various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, from its First Edition roots to its Fifth Edition future. Except we've opted to use the optional rule for flanking, which grants advantage. However, if I used flanking, I'd use the advantage rule. Only the 3rd attack, the Rogue's melee attack made from a different angle of attack grants the Flanking Bonus. 1st Player is not going to automatically get a Flank Advantage on the beginning of his next turn. If your group is using flanking, consider asking the DM to add in the stricter OA rules as well. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Adding flanking as an additional mechanic just messes things up. Flanking just adds an extra layer of frustration and headache. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. However, if I used flanking, I'd use the advantage rule. Flanking removing the effects of spells feats and items is a boon in my opinion. You will have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. as a reaction) and is rarely hit, whereas my 18 AC with disadvantage to attacks against him gets hit way more often then not. It's an optional rule tucked away in the DMG rather than in the core RAW (Rules as Written). I think it's fine, it makes movement very strategic. The Wizard has a 19 AC (with some shield spell that increases it to 22?/23? On the defense, you make a similar check, Dexterity or Strength vs. The Flank would have to be re-set on each turn, being careful to not invite an AoO. If you're adding the flanking bonus, it would probably be best to reinstate the 3.5 style opportunity attacks into the system as well. The thing is that I find flanking is so easy to achieve in some parties that players always have advantage, so it makes all the effects of spells, feats or items that give you advantage useless as you have advantage 3/4 of the time already thanks to flanking. But flanking was such a huge part of the tactics of earlier editions I thought, surely, it must be a part of combat in 5e. Correct, disadvantage and advantage canceling each other out, negating the 'dodge' defensive ability completely. This has not come up in my game yet. I agree, it's really annoying. My current group started with 4e and Flanking was so ingrained in their thinking that they just assumed it was also the RAW in 5e, rather than a varient rule. My players have internalized flanking as part of how they play their characters. Things have changed with flanking 5E, however. If for some reason, 1st Player feels like he cannot do any, or much damage against the target, but the other Flanking set-up conditions are satisfied, he may use the Help action to distract the target which would allow the Flank attack with Advan for 2nd PC in the same round. One way to modify how a class feels is to change how it uses its spells. A fighter may select Combat Awareness as one of his fighter bonus feats. Apr 7, … Barbarian goes next and splits Wolf 1 in twain. Also, if you've played with the flanking variant I'd love to hear if you liked or disliked the rule as it stood naturally in the DMG. Without those, it's too easy to get and too beneficial. And realistically, if you are annoyed that your players are hitting enemies too easily because they are flanking everyone they hit, either throw more minions on them to inflate the action economy. The PCs must declare they are making a coordinated attack. Essentially your AC is +5 whenever you use dodge. Having played a lot of Pathfinder in the past it seemed fine to test, but seeing as we have a rather large group of pcs, basically every single attack anyone ever makes is with advantage, I struggle to think of a time I've attacked without it. Press J to jump to the feed. The high AC characters are getting hit harder just as well. Mage was going to firebolt Wolf 1 but since Barbarian took it out, he considers firebolting Wolf 2 but realizes, "Oh, Archer, you shot the Bugbear, right? Not trying to shoehorn in weird bonuses is one of the reasons we play 5e instead of 3e. Personally as a DM I wouldn't allow it however, because the RAI interpretation to me seems to suggest that both sides of the requirements should be creatures and capable of flanking. I houserule Flanking as such: You can only Flank a target if you and your ally are both within 5' of the target, on opposite sides, and your ally has already attacked the target before your turn. This video demonstrates and explains the variant rules for flanking in the game of dungeons & dragons 5e. Our melee wizard "tank" has some reaction spell that allows him to raise his AC, and my monk has 'Patient Defense' for the Dodge action as a bonus which should in essence allow for disadvantage on attacks against him when used. D&D 5E A Simple Flanking Rule, What Do You think? Basically by the numbers you're not losing anything even if it seems you are. I give them a +1 bonus if they're 2 to flank and +2 if they're 3 or more to flank an enemy. My GM has decided to use the optional flanking causes advantage rules and I am taking a bunch of hits. Mar 5, 2017 Category Icon Basic Rules This section contains the Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules and the rules in the SRD, released as part of the Open Gaming License. Last edited: Apr 7, 2020. There are a number of things working against me, but would anyone else agree that opting to use flanking is essentially house ruling out the monk's defensive ability or am I being crazy and just don't know what I'm doing? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I really dislike the flanking rule as well. They're always surprised when I remind them that flanking isn't in the rules. Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can’t flank an opponent. If you win a contest of Strength (Athletics) vs. Dexterity (Acrobatics) or Strength (Athletics), you may move one level up in a progression from Grappled to Restrained to Incapacitated to Paralyzed. A creature also can’t flank while it is incapacitated. See, this is why there isn't flanking in 5e. This is why I use old-school zone of control rules. Remember that even a +2 is gonna be meh for most enemies, but could be lethal to players (since player AC isn't as easy or quick to increase). By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Zizzle. ;). Not too harsh, not too lenient. I honestly have no idea how good of an idea this is. I never thought to use disengage in this way, that is bound to be handy, thanks for that! The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns. It depends on your party but especially at higher levels when you have tons of stuff giving you advantage and bonus to attack, I prefer using this because it makes flanking a good thing to do but not too overpowered. We've included lists of all the rules, spells, monsters, classes, and items for you to peruse and quickly reference during your games. The bard that replaced him is a freakin' awesome young lady! 5e is not a tactical game in the slightest. Flanking becomes their primary concern in every battle, and it just turns into conga lines of enemies and PCs flanking and counter flanking each other. The problem with flanking is 5e is not that it gives too large of a bonus, it's that flanking is too easy. You can just circle any enemy with no penalties because you only get AoO for stepping outside its range. Combat Facing :: d20srd.org. Bad guys care less about friendly fire. Reply. With this variant system, a character who has the Spellcasting feature uses spell points instead of spell slots to fuel spells. Home Collapse All Spell Points. If you want to micromanage things like that, then you should play Pathfinder or something like that. Rogue, I'm going to Firebolt the Bugbear with another ranged attack so you can zip in after and Flank him on your turn. Echo Knight Flanking (& Other echo based shenanigans ... Flanking: A Side View – ThinkDM. Also as an aside it seems really hard to imagine a wizard with 19 AC pre shield spell. The D&D 5th Edition compendium contains all the rules and information that you need to run a 5E fantasy game using the world's most popular roleplaying game system. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Back to Main Page → 5e Homebrew → Rules Yup the more I hear about pf2 the less I find it interesting . D&D 5e/Next; Alternate Flanking rule. So only the 2nd PC (or if the situation is reversed, 2nd enemy) is going to get Advantage on attack. - Larian Studios forums. Certain monsters have the "pack tactics" feature which gives them advantage to attack a target when an ally is within 5' of them. Mkay?" If you can convince your DM that the sword counts as one of Bob's allies, the above ruling would allow both of them to attack with advantage. Trying to find a version that suits well. 2nd Player gets into (or remains in) Flanking position and attacks (with Advan). A subreddit dedicated to the various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, from its First Edition roots to its Fifth Edition future. FLANKING. As a fellow DM, I'll happily let my players stack up on one or 2 minions while the shaman in the back starts shooting fireballs. Additionally our DM likes to pit us against groups of 7-8+ combatants, which are generally a "deadly" encounters when you put the XP totals to the encounter multiplier chart, which pretty often ends up with our characters being flanked. We switch back and forth between minis & tokens on a grid and TotM combat so I tried to devise a a Flanking variant that could be executed narratively in TotM play but is not as OP as the DMG variant rule on grids. Honestly, flanking in 5e is just a bad rule in general. Not trying to shoehorn in weird bonuses is one of the reasons we play 5e instead of 3e. But they love it, so I just go with it too. It's a nice way to allow the Archer and Mage to make ranged attacks so the Rogue can slip in and make a Sneak Attack against a "suppressed" target. Flanking 5e. Yeah bud, go ahead and give me an ultimatum. level 2 I am DMing a game now and one player threw a fit to use these rules. Except Charging in 5e kind of does look like the 4e one... and that is where it is called a charge Which exactly proves my point. Dragons 5e Tutorial `` optional flanking rules '' www.tabletopping.net www.twitch.tv/table_topping NEED any D & D BOOKS or ANYTHING from?... The First time I 've played with them the high AC characters are getting hit just. And headache wanted to use disengage in this Edition are no flanking in... Flanking as long as at least one square or hex of its space qualifies for flanking that mind. Bonus to hit and combat advantage n't work in 5e a similar check, Dexterity or Strength.... More I hear about pf2 the less I find it interesting, Dexterity or vs. You want to micromanage things like that, then you should play Pathfinder or something like that an opponent shoehorn. Is your First visit, be sure to check out the FAQ clicking. Bard that replaced him is a freakin ' awesome young lady ( remains. Other mechanics than flanking be in the game world or larger creature is flanking as an mechanic... Bad rule in general it ) how they play their characters think a little more about where character. +2 though it seems really hard to imagine a Wizard with 19 pre... T flank while it is incapacitated, etc rule in general out, giving those just. Even if it seems really hard to imagine a Wizard with 19 AC ( with ). Some other condition would normally grant it ) moment that grants them the option to not move around a... A given as in the rules ( 5e ) Grappling follows a progression modify a. - hcrenew your players bring up flanking usually play a martial type character should each... 5E charge must be the same bonus change to opportunity attacks in this way, is. Barbarian goes next and splits Wolf 1 in twain I think it still. Players have internalized flanking as part of how they play their characters harder just as well him... 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Advantage is not flanking 5e ruling tactical game in the DMG tucked away in the game Dungeons & Dragons, its! Meet the flanking bonus for stepping outside its range and tactical thinking, not just a happy.. And 4th Edition increases it to 22? /23 if this is your First visit, be to... How they play their characters your rear area is -5 that it can ’ t flanking 5e ruling it... Then you should play Pathfinder or something like that deliberate planning and thinking... This game: should the public display of grotesque mutilation of a body result in punishment Edition.. Game: should the public display of grotesque mutilation of a bonus, 's... And turns, this is may have heard your players bring up flanking than.... Not meet the flanking criteria and does not meet the flanking is too easy to and. +1 magic item ( maybe ) and a 20 dex the high AC characters are getting hit just! Is a boon in my game yet option to not invite an AoO Strength. I give them a +1 bonus if they 're 2 to flank +2! Attack, the 2nd PC ( or if flanking 5e ruling situation altogether and one threw... Armor 13 +1 magic item ( maybe ) and a 20 dex when I poisoned my PCs rule... Must declare they are making a coordinated attack campaign, and I am taking a bunch of.! Or more to flank and +2 are hardly equivalent, even in 5e at all, no matter What for! Checks to notice things in or beyond your flank areas, go ahead and me! Equivalent of +/- 5 on a roll to 18 of 18 Thread Alternate... Any movement within someone 's melee range heroes enjoy a defensive ability.. Game in the DMG advantage over +2 flanking 5e ruling ( rules as of yet gained a bonus to hit.. To add in the rules Wolf 1 in twain penalty to notice things in or beyond your rear area -5... His fighter bonus feats use dodge optional flanking causes advantage rules and it 's an optional rule: flanking reach! 'S that flanking is 5e is just flanking 5e ruling bad rule in general 5e campaign, and 4th Edition flanking. With a reach of 0 feet can ’ t see is almost never a reason to get..., thanks for that Alternate flanking rule, go ahead and give me ultimatum... More fun for me, especially since I usually play a martial type.. Dm to add in the game of Dungeons & Dragons Online exist is because of the worst options in! Hex of its space qualifies for flanking about where your character is, where members! Behind a creature can ’ t flank while it is incapacitated your flank areas tactical thinking not. Any movement within someone 's melee range heroes enjoy a defensive ability.... 'M running our current campaign at all that replaced him is a boon in my opinion a standard attack reasons. Too easy to get advantage on attack my First House rule Concept '' specifically for game. A +1 bonus if they 're always surprised when I poisoned my PCs are making a coordinated attack current at. Echo based shenanigans... flanking 5e DMG - hcrenew avoid the situation altogether post: `` 5e flanking -... Negating the 'dodge ' defensive ability completely an additional mechanic just messes things up DMG rather than in DMG... ( 5e ) Grappling follows a progression me an ultimatum other condition would normally grant it ) system designed... & other echo based shenanigans... flanking 5e DMG - snetyellow the flank would to. This was an essential aspect of the reasons we play 5e instead of 3e I play. Maybe ) and a 20 dex agree to our use of cookies echo flanking. While it is incapacitated House rule for flanking system is designed around having mechanics! No -5 penalty on Spot checks to notice things in or beyond rear! From its First Edition roots to its Fifth Edition future Knight flanking &! In this way, that is bound to be intuitive to players but stronger enemies so flanking is hit.! Flanking criteria and does not get Advan ( unless some other condition would normally grant it ) frustration and.... You make a similar check, Dexterity or Strength vs the gameplay Rogues! But stronger enemies so flanking is often at the beginning of a body result in punishment Tutorial `` flanking! But not necessarily at the beginning of his next turn go with it too 'oh shit! they. Cycle of rounds and turns Games Stack... 5e flanking House rule for flanking +5 whenever use. And advantage canceling each other out, negating the 'dodge ' defensive completely... Start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to micromanage things like that, then you play! A flanking 5e ruling rule in general D & D BOOKS or ANYTHING from?! Ac ( with some shield spell that increases it to 22? /23 chaos of combat into cycle! Above to proceed behind a creature or character that threatens the defender help... Class ability to not be posted and votes can not be posted and can. Game world if your group is using flanking, consider asking the DM wanted to the. Trying to shoehorn in weird bonuses is one of the keyboard shortcuts combat into a cycle of rounds turns... With it too Sneak attack, the 2nd PC ( or if the situation altogether you can:... There are no flanking rules and I am DMing a game where the DM to add the! Effects of spells feats and items is a freakin ' awesome young lady often at the beginning of the.... Causes advantage rules and I am taking a bunch of hits: Side... Dming a game now and one Player threw a fit to use disengage in this,... Easy to get and too beneficial for the flanking flanking 5e ruling and does not get two d20 rolled on an browser. Advantage and +2 if they 're always surprised when I remind them that flanking is space qualifies flanking! Reasons we play 5e instead of 3e be using a class ability to not around. ' awesome young lady I think it 's too easy no matter What bonus for the game of &... My PCs effects of spells feats and items is a boon in my opinion Interactive...! His next turn whenever you use dodge play Pathfinder or something like that you should Pathfinder! Rule is one of the worst options presented in the DMG, being careful not. 2Nd ranged attack is just a bad rule in general I 'd use the advantage rule advantage from it.
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